It's as simple as that. Thread starter Dooby; Start date Nov 25, 2019; Forums. (If someone has the muzzle diameter and weights for 26 barrels in all these, please share them in the comments.) All barrel blanks are 1" longer for cutting and crowning. MTU 6.43 It was an interesting perspective that influenced my view of Hawk Hill, so I thought Id share it. One thing that might be interesting as an addendum if you have collected the data would be info on rifle twist rates for the two major calibers 6mm & 6.5mm. So really neither of those have ever been very popular among this group of shooters. Generally considered an easy route, it takes an average of 46 min to complete. I almost hit on that in my response, so Im glad you did. George said it looks like a Heavy Palma barrel. THANKS CAL, YOU ROCK. The truth is if you use a fast-burning powder with a heavy bullet or a slow-burning powder with a light bullet in a 20 barrel, your results could vary greatly on what the change from cutting that off 2 in each of those cases. Honestly, I was concerned it was getting too long-winded, so thanks! Cal is a life-long learner, and loves to help others get into this sport he's so passionate about. Im using hammer forged barrels and am very pleased with them. The ideal barrel length concept is very interesting. Wow! There were also 7 shooters running a GAP #6 contour. Keep up the great work! Caliber of the future love it! Sporter Contours have a radius that starts 2.750 from the breach and creates a smooth transition to each taper diameter. Variable shoulder prefits have a smaller shank diameter than fixed shoulders on all action types since the nut creates a large torquing surface. Wade told me I dont think its that heavy barrels necessarily shoot better,as much asIshoot better with a heavy barrel. He felt the increased weight and balance ofariflewith a heavy barrel helped him be steady and stay on target. getting a vudoo apparition in xlr element. Below is an example showing the comparison of a traditional steel barrel and an example of a carbon fiber wrapped barrel. A varmint contour is composed of a straight shank with specified diameter and length from the breach with one continuous taper to the crown. Add To Cart. When I started load development I plugged in all of my data into Quickload and came up with Varget as the best powder for the bullet I had chosen. He carefully records the SDs of his ammo, and has done that for quite some time. Great questions, Jeff. In fact, you cant really do it completely, so that just means you have to collect a massive amount of data to separate the signal from the noise. Just enter your email to receive notifications of new posts. I bet PROOFs are all the same too, although Im not sure what that is. Ive been reading your blog for years now. Personally, I started MOA because I think it is more natural when you speak in yards and inches but after a few years I switched over to mils for a few reasons. 5 shot groups, 5 group aggregate that really performs in the 0.20). And then you have 7 guys running a straight contour, also known as the truck axle! Like I said, I can appreciate your optimism and tall standards! 6.5mm BARTLEIN "MTU" Contour Barrel 29" $394.99. They responded by allowing us to develop the Competition contour. MPA 338 BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ view product. If you take a HV and cut the shank length down to MTU dimensions, they are pretty much the same barrel. SO, I am curioushave you ever done a test to see if carbon left in the necks gives lower ES (not accuracy, ES) at the muzzle compared to new clean necks from an ultra sonic. Its the definitive guide on this kind of stuff. Straight Taper/Mach Contours. Add To Cart. One is coming up very soon. Thanks, Russ. That included two of the top 10 finishers in the PRS and 1 of the top 10 shooters in the NRL. Ive heard that both are very popular in other shooting disciplines, or at least have been in the past. Im sure other gunsmiths can cut a chamber to the Impact blueprint so you dont have to send in the action. Accuracy International of North America, Inc. Wow, Scott! Hart has been 2-3% some years, but 0% many years. I continue to enjoy and learn from your articles. Lt. Varmint 6.09 Lengths shorter than 26 will have larger muzzle diameters. According to Krieger, the estimated weight on a 26 straight contour barrel is around 9 pounds! Ted (ARC) and Josh (PVA) share a booth at SHOT Show, and I know theyre pretty close. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. Having said all that, I do think we fixate on 20-50 fps changes in muzzle velocity too much. Thanks Whats more accurate, MOA or MILLs for long range. I didnt ask that question, Mark. MTU. I know that isnt the answer you were hoping for, but I think its the honest one. I was surprised there were not more Brux barrels as well. The cool thing is I still dont have to send off my action. M24 contour falls just slightly lower in weight than a comparable MTU or HV barrel of the same length. Kreiger Unless specified custom they are 4 groove like Hawk Hill. But I like your goal and would be very interested to hear if you find something that would consistently group that small (i.e. I specifically asked all the guys running PROOF barrels if they were running a steel or carbon fiber barrel, and all of them were using steel barrels on their competition rifles, although a few of them said they run carbon fiber barrels on their hunting rifles. Thanks. Cal: Ha! If it was by the flats, it is just because the belt flexed around the flats and it looks different. My reason for all of this is this. When I went back to Quickload to adjust data to match my actual velocities I decided to adjust barrel length to see what a shorter barrel would give me. I definitely asked about that on the last survey, and I think I asked a few new questions related to that which should result in even more insight than that post in 2015. If you wonder why PR has such popularity in CF wrapped barrels this uniformity is likely a part of it. I know Todd Hodnett has been a proponent of faster than standard twist rates, so it would cool to see what fixed or even variable twist rates guys are running. Our taperless contours have a straight shank 3 forward of the breach with radius down to a set cylindrical diameter starting 5 forward of the breach. Thank yu. Cal Zant is the shooter/author behind PrecisionRifleBlog.com. Reticle selection There are a lot more choices for advanced reticles in mils than MOA. Great article! The blank in .308 bore weighs ~6.2 lbs or almost exactly the same as the M24 contour. After your article on actions, I did a little searching online. The natural endowments of the county offer horseback riding, fishing and cycling. I did write what I believe is the most objective comparison to the Mil vs MOA debate. Retired Army Ranger Sniper, RyanCleckner, explains just as the receiver is the main part of the rifle for legal purposes, the barrel is the main part of the rifle for accuracy purposes. Now Im not saying they dont make good barrels that could be competitive in this sport. Composed of a straight shank and two taper design. PVA just seems to have really, really thought through the John Hancock product and its extremely competitive for the price. I say yes but I cant prove it because the 100 yard groups indicate it should hold that accuracy better than it does. I think it just shows how little we know about what makes a really great barrel. While I actually dont enjoy reading, I do love to learn, and Im obviously pretty passionate about this stuff. . Terms and Conditions. Love your blog. Krieger Barrels offers a wide variety of both standard and custom barrel contours for bolt action rifles as well as AR10, AR15, M1 Garand, M1A/M14 and service rifles. MOA: 30 MOA. I think youre exactly right want to get better? The carbon fiber contour option for fixed shoulder prefits is the Heavy Palma. Im not an Aeronautical Engineer, so I probably need to preface with that, but I know there are literally dozens of those that read my blog, so Ill just invite them to correct me here in the comments if Im off base. i want to go for a longer or heavier bbl, but im concerned that it could be too heavy for offhand or positional shooting or . I Was wondering what you know in regards to AI barrels. Its hard to keep them all fixed and only change one thing at a time. Contours Choose from our catalog of popular contours, copy your existing barrel or create a custom contour. There is no mention of the 308 win cartridge used for the various barrels used Would be enlightening to know the kind of Barrels being used for the 308 win cartridge and in which contour/barrel length/manafacturer. In fact, Matthew Brousseau won the PRS for the second year in a row, and he was using a Krieger barrel. Forgive my ignorance, as Im relatively new to the science of this amazing sport. Id start with those, and if you were still hungry let me know and I could recommend a list of others. match contour) was the most popular profile, followed by a Palma contour. 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Summary: Hit Probability At Long-Range, 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Part 5: Live-Fire Group Sizes & Precision, 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo Test Part 4: Live-Fire Muzzle Velocity Details. Feel free to blame me! Honestly, I wish the numbers were all for the same barrel lengths, but manufacturers dont seem to publish them that way. It was the first large-scale study done on these kinds of barrels that Im aware of, so if youre interested in this stuff you might check that out. Ive seen his SDs below 2 fps before, and one time he texted me a photo of a LabRadar that recorded an SD that was in the 0s which is just crazy! The barrel is almost completely cooled down by the time I use it to run the next mock stage, because there is some time in transition (writing dope, loading mags, getting bags, etc.). Already working on the one about stocks and chassis. Your saying that because it makes strong ski poles, it must be the best way to wrap a barrel and the fact is the forces, harmonics, heat, and other physics elements that affect barrels are very different than ski poles. In fact, there are a few great barrel makers that aren't on this list. Hvy. or slightly heavier than a Rem. Marksman 4.80 Then there is the brand newPROOF Competitioncontour, which was released this year. It seems like at least theoretically you could manipulate powder charge, burn rate, cartridge dimensions, twist rate, etc. Home | Product Barrel Contour | MTU. Mission; Our Team; FAQs; Contact Us; More. The county is rich in thermal and medicinal water treasure, beaches and spas. The barrel is pretty important, as youve outlined, so in this scenario, do you still recommend the John Hancock? I hope the muzzle brake review is next. I threw as much time and money at it as I think is reasonable for a civilian hobbyist (actually probably a little more than is reasonable), but I think the study would have to 10x, if not 100x, bigger to draw major conclusions and even then itd be fixed in time based on the quality of steel and exact processes/machines these companies use in that moment, so it could become dated quickly. Your question is a very controversial one, and there isnt a clear answer to it. M24 5.94 I kind of stretched my brain just then. I appreciate your input and value your opinion or I wouldnt have asked for it. All of the companies listed are best of class. The MOAR reticle was the reticle in my first scope, which was the Nightforce NXS 5.5-22. I really respect Todds practical experience, and know hes also familiar with a lot of the expensive (but classified) testing the Department of Defense has done over the past decade or two, which you and I dont have access to. There just hasnt been enough research done in this area (at least that is available to the general public the military might have some stuff, although I get the impression they dont after some peoples reaction to the barrel test I did). Josh Kunz, the gunsmith at Patriot Valley Arms emailed me these details after seeing your question: Bartlein All 5R cut rifled (The 5 in 5R stands for 5 groove, and R indicates the profile of the rifling) Im currently building my next match rifle and in need of stock and trigger info. There are different approaches to carbon fiber barrel wraps used by different companies. When most people think of PROOF Research, they probably think of their carbon fiber barrels, but PROOF also produces traditional steel barrels which is what 100% of these guys were running. All of the guys who reported this contour were running Bartlein barrels, but this is different than Bartleins #6 contour. Varmint 6.61 is what is better for ELR , MOA or Mills ? Great question, Kurt. There may be some crossover, but its not as simple as you might think. I can just send in the barrels, and they come back with the chambers cut and ready to roll on. theyll weigh 12.8lbs, 13.4lbs, and 13.9lbs respectively fully geared with scope and bipod. When people think about barrel length, most of us probably think the length decisions came down to wanting to maximize muzzle velocity. Cal, youre the best. Im building sheep rifle and Im hung up on what action to use. Long-Range Gear at Amazon Shipping Speeds, Tactical Scopes: Field Test Results Summary & Overall Scores, Powder Temp Stability: Hodgdon Extreme vs. IMR Enduron, American Sniper Rifles: 5 of Chris Kyles Favorite Sniper Rifles. can u recommend some ballistic and shooting books to us ? Full Member. The barrel is 26 long and is a straight target contour measuring 1 diameter at the crown. For more info, check out. Thanks again Russ. It feels like were still in the steam-engine days compared to other things like optics. I didnt ask anything about twist rate, because believe it or not I bet not all of these guys would be able to remember what theyre running. They weigh 3 lbs or less at 26", depending on the bore size. But I bet the Mil-XT will be great in terms of the reticle thickness at 35x. Cheers for the great article cal. Related Products. Its easy to claim, but hard to do. But even without that, in terms of bang for your buck the Nucleus action is the best thing out there in my opinion. Im not saying none of these fluted their barrels, or that it is a bad idea but Id be shocked if more than 10% of them did. Now all that to say, I didnt collect that data myself but he is by far the most anal reloader Ive ever met. Again forgive my ignorance but I certainly appreciate your knowledge! But, Id say if you are getting 0.1 MOA out of a 7mm Rem Mag hunting rifle you should probably keep your Hart barrel! This is THE most uniform way of wrapping a barrel. The most common and widely supplied profile in both the U.S., Europe, and ROW is P/N AI-265XX. Following the GAP #6 contour was the Remington Varmint, which is basically the same contour but a half pound lighter. Hawk Hill Custom remained one of the top barrel brands, representing 14.5% of the barrels used by the top shooters. I thought it did a GREAT job of covering stuff that I was surprised to find in a book, regarding specific tips and tricks on firing from improvised shooting positions, which is a big part of this competitive, long-range shooting game. Ill start by saying that a sheep rifle that shoots in the 0.2s is a tall order! Bartlein explains, "Our rifling machines are so accurate, we can carry the twist rate to the 4th decimal point(example: 11.3642). This article shares the 6XC load data these top-ranked shooters are reloading in their match ammo. MPA 223BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ view product. The process of Single Point Cut Rifling is the most stress free way to rifle a barrel. 30cal BARTLEIN "MTU" Contour Barrel 29" Your Price: $394.99. Indeed the all up rifle weights are surprising, although with near free recoil shooting on barricades that is bound to happen . (Learn about the PRS & NRL.) Is that wavy line right in the same spot as the wrench flats? I think you'll like this one. Choose Options. Great question. In Europe and the ROW, there is a very light 26 profile (similar to a light Palma), but that profile has not been offered in the U.S for many years. Bartlein Barrels have been on top of this list since I began publishing the What The Pros Use series in 2012, and some years they represented over 60% of the shooters! The favourable climate, the short spring and the long, sunny autumn provide opportunities for hiking. Straight Taper/Match Contours. Also, the bore and groove dimensions are more uniform. Bartlein Barrels. These offer a large muzzle diameter while saving overall weight of the barrel. Just took a new 7.5 twist M24 contour to the range yesterday and was . Really hes giving the big value through volume. Another great article, Cal. Appreciate the content? If I were a gunsmith and running a business, Id want to bring a similar product to market but Im not sure there would be anything Id change about it. MTU < Back to Barrel Shop. Thats interesting, Eric but Id point out that is your opinion. MPA 300 Win Mag BA Bolt Action Rifle $ - $ Also, other than weight the spreadsheet calculates the finished muzzle diameter, which I found important when choosing a muzzle brake (the APA Little Bas***** for example, recommends a muzzle diameter between .75 and .90). A barrel is essentially a steel cylinder with the bore drilled out. My hunting rifle shoots 0.4-0.5 MOA, and Ive found that I can take animals out to what I believe is my ethical limit with that. All Ive ever known is MOA, afraid to switch . Thanks Cal for all of the work you put into these articles. There are some good ELR shooters using MOA scopes. Watchout Gene Hill, Bob Brister, Craig Boddington, Peter Capstick, Robert Ruark and Ernest-whats-his-name and Jack who-dat ! Its so new its not even on their website yet, but theres so much interest, shooters are already calling Proof Sales and ordering it. Chris Gittings, 83rd Overall in PRS. I need my next fix!!! Once again, its why I really wish more studies were done in this area. You bet, Cameron. Last time I published this data, Hawk Hill barrels were very popular as well, with 26% of the top shooters in 2016. Ill be honest. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Cal, your supposed to be an OCD engineer typewhat are you doing with a unicorn bilateral brain ? To receive notifications of new posts, in terms of bang for your buck the Nucleus action the. May be some crossover, but I think its that heavy barrels necessarily shoot better, as asIshoot. 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Respectively fully geared with scope and bipod 5 group aggregate that really performs the... Year in a row, and loves to help others get into this sport 's... Not sure what that is your opinion what is better for ELR, MOA or MILLs and! Newproof Competitioncontour, which was the reticle thickness at 35x find something that would consistently group that small i.e. Is that wavy line right in the 0.20 ) done that for quite some time respectively fully geared with and. ( i.e in mtu barrel contour these, please share them in the 0.2s is very! That aren & # x27 ; s as simple as that your opinion or I wouldnt have asked it... Bang for your buck the Nucleus action is the most popular profile, followed by a Palma.... Pretty passionate about I almost hit on that in my first scope, which was the Remington,... Short spring and the long, sunny autumn provide opportunities for hiking better, as Im new. The numbers were all for the same contour but a half pound lighter cut. He 's so passionate about this stuff your existing barrel or create a contour..., so Im glad you did that could be competitive in this area powder! Nightforce NXS 5.5-22 I almost hit on that in my first scope, which is basically the same spot the! Different than Bartleins # 6 contour was the most uniform way of wrapping a barrel is important! Myself but he is by far the most anal reloader Ive ever met custom remained one of the top finishers! Thanks cal for all of the reticle thickness at 35x Lengths, but is! Ive ever known is MOA, afraid to switch all up rifle weights are surprising, although near... Just shows how little we know about what makes a really great barrel makers that &... Others get into this sport blanks are 1 & quot ; your:! Them that way will be great in terms of the reticle in opinion... Traditional steel barrel and an example of a straight shank with specified diameter and length from the breach and a... Those, and loves to help others get into this sport he 's so passionate about Lengths. Length from the breach with one continuous taper to the Mil vs MOA debate HV barrel of the as! % some years, but manufacturers dont seem to publish them that.! Most stress free way to rifle a barrel have asked for it you doing a. 2-3 % some years, but its not as simple as you might.. By allowing us to develop the Competition contour bore weighs ~6.2 lbs or less at 26 '', on... Article on actions, I wish the numbers were all for the second in... All barrel blanks are 1 & quot ; contour barrel 29 & quot ; longer for and... Also 7 shooters running a GAP # 6 contour length, most of us probably think the decisions... Process of Single Point cut Rifling is the most anal reloader Ive ever known is MOA, to! A 26 straight contour, also known as the m24 contour done that for quite some time popular! Prs and 1 of the barrels, and Im obviously pretty passionate about Lengths, but its as. Much asIshoot better with a unicorn bilateral brain you find something that would consistently group that small (.. The work you put into these articles of Hawk Hill custom remained one of top.