However, by doing so we are ignoring the damage that this does to the industry . Youre not automatically entitled to them. We cant do anything but have thought experiments because unlike other companies, GW wont discuss the affects of recasting and no one has published any kind of reasonable peer reviewed study. You aren't allowed to use recasts in a GW store, for one (though depending on the quality, people might not notice). I dont agree with that it is stealing, its models I would never buy anyway. People who use recast try to paint GW as the bad guy and the others that protect GW dont want to have a conversation or rationalize their thoughts. All that artistic work, ranging from concept, development, sculpting, marketing or quality control, has a price. A quick check of eBay appeared to turn up way fewer listings for Forge World than last week at this time. Bollocks. Its nice to see such mature topics being treated with depth. Your supporting a criminal enterprise plain and simple which is slowly killing the hobby will these re casters spend time and money designing rule books and fluff? Wait how is this killing the hobby ? I blame LEGOs. I mean, yes, you have to pay sculpting, designing, producingBut after a certain amount of models sold, the rest is profit. Now it raise an other thing literally pissing me off if I may, due to that misinformation, we legit hobbyist/painters in China are also punished with blatant racism by most of the European brands (especially those from Spainsorry guys). The price of the cinema these days is ridiculous. There are so many classic wfb models Id love to buy, but the second hand market is just crazy since aos happened and some models are just near impossible to find, even if you have the money. It leaves you a very salty taste. The cheap cost of resin you mention would only be associated with recasters. And I do not buy the excuse hey, this is an expensive hobby. It is our mission to bring you the latest from the miniature wargaming scene, from narrative missions, hobby how-to tutorials, battle reports, unboxings and reviews, retro flashbacks, news, rumors, and more. As you see, this is nightmarish no matter how you look at it. Who does GW employ? Obviously, as you will see now, the original copy hasvery good quality in every detail. So as far as Im concerned welcome to freakin reality; where everything is as shodily made as they can get away with and consumers will seek in the inevitable tug of war to get the most value for the very sacrifice of their lives for the slim hope that they might spend some of it in enjoyable repast. Really you are the idiots here supporting such a corporation. As expected, the pieces to assemble are the same as the original. They were producing beautiful miniatures (crazy complicated game) but they were cut the margins too thinly. Virginia Restless, Miniature Painter & Cat Dad. But if they got a fund together and I am sure there are enough lawyers between hobbyists that can support it pro bono. I dont buy recasts, and I dont buy from companies that charge more than I think is reasonable. However, it is unknown if sellers have been similarly notified or if there is just a lull in listings. "R" refreshes comments. Blaming the pirates did not work for the music or film industries, it will not work here either. We are actually preparing another post about that specific issue you are mentioning because that is a topic that will also lead to a huge discussion! Spain (for example) has been famous for doing this for a while. Suffer in the worst way possible. A check of their website shows that it is indeed down, and from the looks of it not coming back. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Unfortunately, the quality of their products leaves much to be desired. So what Jag is saying is if something is more expensive than he wants to pay, he is justified in stealing it. Shall I summon the serf dedicated to worshiping the shavings from your glorious toenails, milord? Recasting is a side effect of greedy companies or individuals that take hobby members for granted. With Z, the above linked infantry squad is $16. Manufacturer SCALE 75 minis, have put their foot down and advocated an anti-piracy message into the hobby world. western companies sell out their own customers and citizens with foreign labor then cry about IP, its a joke. Genestealer Cult, Ad Mech & Eldar Top The 40k Army Lists. What do you think of the latest Warhammer recaster to get shut down by Games Workshop ? You are completely right about this. Seriously, those copies are better quality than originals looking only on those pictures. Another army made unplayable. Its material has still some margin for manipulation, as opposed to the one in the recast copy. Finally, are you sure you arent a recaster? Thats despicable. Check out Yoyhammer. Both have exactly the same parts. Spikey Bits is a registered trademark of Purple Elephants. Some of the casts I have bought would struggle to be used as scenery they are that bad. See yourself for historical games, for the Warlord Games company. I have a motto I live by it.regarding others if you lie,you can cheat,cheat you can steal, steal you can.lets just say theres many cases of some folks needing something bad ,dont have the money and try and steal for itthings escalate and then murder becomes involved. Quality of some recasters is much higher than Forgeworld. I think theres one thing that need to be said here regardless of ip. In this role, you will be monitoring websites and sales platforms to identify infringements and counterfeit products and then you will follow a structured process for removing those products, reducing counterfeit products available across all sales platforms and websites. After all, they also pay the same fees and have lots of competition. It leaked that it costs Games Workshop about $5-$7 per a box of Marine Tac squad. And dont forget about the spacedwarfs aka squats. Instead of looking into the business that are in the climate (and possibly are the reason for the climate being the way it is) we try to cancel culture those in the hobby. There is no better way to understand the lousy quality of these recasts than by putting them in front of their originals. P.O. The difficult thing is to develop a miniature from scratch, starting with an idea that begins with just a few pencil strokes on paper. It is very bad quality, hard plastic etc. Let us know in the comments of ourFacebook Hobby Group,and make sure youenter the latest monthly giveaway for FREE today! There are many families, people and brands that struggle hard every day to bring you new and spectacular figures and products. (and here I come back the argument) its the small independent places that can no longer get the movies into big cinema chains because they wont bring in the numbers to cover the costs. I have original models, but only because I discovered only recently about recast and I will definitely go this way. will they invest in all the new technology? Its about supporting companies that support your interests by creating models and figures you enjoy. Tripling the quarterly profits isnt exactly telling me that they are covering costs and slowly expanding. Also several Rackham miniatures. OUR EXISTENCE IS IN DANGER! Lets say I want a cheap 1k starting army, but Im a college kid who cant justify the outrageous cost ($250 minimum, plus the hobby equipment and paint for at least $300 min). 2K. It is wrong but it is also stupid. Recasting gives these filthy companies a taste of their own medicine. That is crazy for such a quality. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. When you create a community of over 200 players/painters from occident and another 300 mainlanders, manage to make an order form for let say greenstuff world for those 500 lads to get legit stuff, and you are being told : you guys are thief so no we wont deliver in China because we do not want to get copied While saying that to a European. Ive never bought from a recaster, but I know many who do. Squats went 20 years ago because no one was buying them. And a very recent case of IP theft in Spain as you mention has brought this into the spotlight, but we havent found the time yet to properly talk about this very important matter. It is our aim to be an inclusive and wholesome place for all. The elitism of GW is a prime example; They go so far as not allowing official models in their store tourneys, even when a reasonable counts-as. Adding on to what Shane Rozzell have said and more direct. Take these smaller companies making stunning models for half the price or even less, how is that possible? We are talking about recasts: illegal copies of miniatures. This really rips ma knitting this! Youre a thief. These artists work hard. No one has put more indie model firms out of business than GW. These illegal copies are either found in the second hand market or directly by those looking for a 70% discount or more. u go to china to get the product made why do you deserve protection from western copy right laws ? Box 2225Southern Pines, NC 28387United States of America. Recasting isnt a side effect of greedy companies, I have known some companies unable to meet rent and worse still some have gone out of business. Recasts and piracy, in general, is suddenly on the rise across the hobby as a whole, as other manufacturers and independent artists are also starting to take a hit. After games workshops 150 million EXTRA prophit in 2018 Im not sure that recasting is harming the hobby in the slightest. As it goes for GW story is different as plastic is better, quality great and models in box sets are not so expensive. I hope the author never watches streaming movies or mp3s. Anyone reading this would be excused from thinking that any cheap kits from a country other than china are OK. The 9th Edition of 40k is going to be open and crowd sourced by the players, for the players, for the betterment of the game instead of lining GWs pockets. I got several figs from them, all ended up at GW legal that promptly provided me with a . This is How to Play The Conquest Nords Army Faction, Final Changes Are Here For 9th Edition 40k: Balance Datasheet, Good Luck Getting The New Lion, Dante or Azrael 40k Models Now. Try to pay a good concept designer, a good sculptor, a good painter for box art, than doing promotion, pay tax, location, bills and what else and dont forget you need to have profit for time and risk you took. There's several recasters that operate based on email, and the subreddit posts reviews of their products. I bet you steal music and movies. Quality and durability is a real issue with their resin, Ive had several LoTR finecast models break on me while gaming far too easily, usually on fine detail or blades thats near impossible to effectively fix. why is it that if I spend 70 on a primarch from forgeworld, I have to send at least 3 or 4 of those parts back to be exchanged because of mould slips or just general terrible casting and I will likely have to return one of the replacements they send me too. You know what happens? Rules Recaster Z is the lowest cost and - #171951649 added by manollette at Desu Korps of Kreig 21 2019 Games Workshop Warhammer 40k Ork Boyz $40 A recasting catalog 2/2/18 A recasting catalog 2/2/18. Its even happened with the newer hobbit resin models that are supposedly of better quality (its nowhere near forgeworld quality). Dont get confused. The figure in the picture (Nash) Sold 32 uni. GW greed and agressive copyright protection has no sympathy in my hart, not to mention rule changing every year and leaving youngsters out of hobby due to pricing. Hell, 5 years ago they were barely with 10 dollars a share. I wouldnt take a recast even if someone gives it to me for free. A movement has started to help raise awareness about the loss of income these folks have started to experience recently. The vast, vast majority of the models I buy are genuine GW products, but there gets a point where Im not going to spend 30 for each and every additional model in an army, which become often unusable in game as rules get re-released with almost each passing year. Just saying individuals like that who do that have no moral compass. These artists may not be local, but they are the ones putting all of their time and effort into bringing you these wonderful creations, only to be outdone by a random recaster. Mainly Forgeworld and resin copies of Games Workshop plastic kits. . I do not buy such copies for moral reasons, but I will not buy original figurines. It's not illegal to buy them, though, just to . Nice article, only preaching to converted. Imo it tells me that they severely overprice their products for maximum GP. And what about the companies (from small to big) that produce miniatures based on comics/movies/books/games/characters/ without paying for a license? Now im buying tons of big recasted models. I have no problem doing a massive company like GW out of 40 quid. 33% of the original, and with a positive experience in my pocket Im more likely to stick into the hobby, which means more long term profits. We arent saying you shouldnt buy alternate versions of models that you can use in your tabletop games. But theyre not paying hundreds of thousands of pounds for a plastic mould. Famous search engines of Chinese products show easily references of companies like Andrea Miniatures, Nocturna Models, Young Miniatures, Knight Models, and many others. Recaster Z is the lowest cost and highest inventory overall, with a bit of a cut on quality. And its not Hollywood that is getting killed. The arguments here are simple white knighting and emotional, there is no one actually willing to discuss anything or addressing recasting. After evaluating each and every aspect that could lead us to look for a cheaper product, we see that getting the original product will undoubtedly make our experience with the miniature hobby much better. With Z, the above linked infantry squad is $16. Yes recasts are stealing IP but until GW treats us in a respectable manner, they garner no respect from us and therefore I couldnt care less about their IP. It is not a matter of victimization or educating anyone, but it is about making all our followers understand that the illicit practices of the recasters are causing us to be little by little in danger of extinction if we continue to feed them. Only we can act effectively against miniature recasting! But if we want to talk about greed; innefficient capital structures like the massive litigious company games workshop has become cant talk and the average human animal forced into a capitalistic system also cant be blamed. In addition to this, the flat parts are not flat by any (ANY) means. a 6th edition metal dwarf throne of powers market price on ebay is now around 160, thats way beyond the reach of most hobbyists, definitely out of the reach of kids. What companies are u using for recasts? If you plan on punishing players (and I mean PUNISH them) when you compare what you offer for what other reasonable vendors offer, you find re-castes are a result of your own actions. Yes, this is a business for me, my only job since 25 years, the way I have to pay my bills and keep doing what I love. So the person being greedy here is you. This scourge of the hobby is a worldwide problem. Discover the magic of the Internet at Imgur. Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. there was articular about how GW buys there cast from Chinese companys and they over order and then decide not to pay for amount they decide they no longer need. Im now buying models that Id never buy because they are crazy expensive, for example forgeworld knights. Ought I go back to whipping them, or should they be permitted to return to working in the fields? How Imperial Agents Work in 10th Edition & Free Arbites Rules! The assumption that any money spent on recasts would have gone to GW is incorrect. Z Catalog Recast. Copies from recasters, most of the time from China, are at first glance an option to acquire otherwise expensive miniatures at affordable prices. Also, the resin used for the recasts is a very smelly material, with a very weak and brittle body, and you have to be careful with it at all times. For the sake of this report, we have acquired a couple of Chinese illegal recasts as well as their respective originals, and we are going toshow you in detail why there is no point at all in buying these pieces of bad plastic. Now, companies like Games Workshop are a ethical grey-area for myself, because their business practices/efforts are not in consideration of the gamer (in my opinion). We havent got a global Netflix style service with all movies available. Here in Spain we call it Chinoforge, the one that pretty much everyone has heard of. Thats the total cost for them, packaging, payroll, the lot. My only experience with recasts were a set of transparent Tau stealth suits which, while everyone agreed were really cool, I was told not to use them. The above article is, quite frankly, scaremongering. are doing this with the intention to create a well costed, and quality product. Continue with Recommended Cookies, A major recaster in China is closing up shop after being contacted by Games Workshop regarding their Warhammer. The person being greedy here is you. Im not into recasting but what I find ridiculous is Games Workshops prices. Thatll add on the time it takes to pour the resin, and remove it. Judge yourselves. Reply . Their heart is closer to their craft, and I could not justify owning their product while paying someone else for it. And I firmly put the blame into the hands of piracy aka stealing. GW going out of business would be the best thing in the world for the hobby. What a bad argument. Games workshop not only wants lots of money for its live figures (5 euros for guardsman from krieg !, more than for metal ones!). I totally understand the problem with stolen IP and that the problem must be addressed, but I would also say that in regards to out of production miniatures that in economic terms GW are not providing what the market wants, so the market is finding alternative ways to provide it, unfortunately these arent legal, but on the other hand this is an avoidable situation for GW. But, from my experience, smaller manufactures like Andrea, and Pegaso, and Scibor, and Blacksmith, etc. @Greg. Rackham died because they didnt know how to run a business. Many other companies offer products as good as theirs or even better for a lower price. The resin *can* be toxic, but buying from larger recasters is safe. A regular in national events wherever they are, huge advocate of hobbying with good beer and friends ;). even once all my returns have been replaced by forgeworld the model is still of a lower quality than the recast. If you are honestly trying to peddle such nonsense as recast being better than originals you are either seriously deluded or an outright liar! My FLGS has 20 tables filled with terrain whereas the GW has two tables in a tiny store away from any major shopping areas. Things like Kodi make it seem harmless oh you clicked a few buttons and bingo it is there without any effort, so it must be harmless. If that was to happen then there is a chance of changing something. Man, either you are some kid, troll or just an idiot with no capacity to think logically. Appealing to modelers if futile in my opinion, there is not enough power in that argument to change buying habits. After what number model those artists are paid ? Just out of curiosity, what about recasts of long out of print miniatures, or miniatures from defunct companies? Ill never buy legitimate versions now with the re casts being so good from where I get them from. the books are out there the rules are out there, it would be like if Monopoly was suddenly no longer made every one knows the rules and can build their own board quit being GW fan boys they dont give a shit about you. Alecs is really right for all that fantasy models he refers were sculpted by artists and then casted to mass production, usually in metal and made of thick components. You stole the right to use that miniature in your games, to paint it and to present it to your friends IRL or on social media. Reporting to our Senior Legal Counsel, you will be part of our Legal team which handles a wide range of legal matters which affect Games Workshop including infringements, trade mark and copyright protection, competitions, dispute resolution and litigation, to name but a few! How many of us would not be hobbyists if it wasnt for our local GW? No? Youre obviously not using a good recaster, also you havent mentioned the cheap cost of resin and how much profit is made on resin models. or have you forgotten about the atrocious quality that was Citadel Finecast, here despite the shit quality we still saw an increase in price. Try again. Just as with Lietpold, the amount of resin and burrs it has is endless, making it especially difficult to find out what belongs to the model and what is left over. You stole the profits from a miniature company that puts food on their table, heats their homes, takes their kids to sports events/cinema (more on this in a min)/etc. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Of course, cheaper things are always more attractive, but it comes back to the principle of supporting your local business. Especially when taken out of context or without a clue of whats going on here Sure there are Chinese recasters, unfortunately I hate to break it to you, but all of the biggest and well known recasts world wide produced here are made by westerners Bummer. Everyone knows about them. We pay for quality in finishes and materials, and the most important ofall: during the month, more than 5 times the quantity that me (the creator, designer and fighter) sold the same month. Its inevitable anyways in the next 5 years with 3D printing. When GW sells the same models in Australia for 60-90% more than the US for no good reason it is hard to feel sorry for them. Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. But in the past 2 years their stock has sky rocketed. This is exacerbated by them constantly suing companies for IP infringement like the Spot the Spacemarine case. My FLGS is not GW. You can call people that buy recasts thieves I hope you enjoy your elitist hobby with the few people that can afford to play it. Its common knowledge, but still kind of a secret. Spikey Bits is a site about the hobby of tabletop wargaming. But there is a thing Id wish to point out, its the Chinese stigmatisation I am french living in China for about ten years now, and Chinese bashing is just a constant thing I hear from most of westerners and is absolutely not right either. So recast companies will push this margin further and further. We are always keen to ensure continuous improvement of our processes, so you will be involved in researching and identifying new ways for Games Workshop to approach infringing and counterfeit product removal and implementing improvements to the infringements process.. In addition, as you will see later, the casting is not good and irregular surfaces of material are very evident. Recasters mates, I got a leviathan dreadnought for 40 NZD, Here I was just about to order a god damn Storm Hawk and their page gets ----ing annihilated, Rip, they should be back up in a couple of days. Finecast is so good, I really dont understand recast buyers ! Back in 2018, we saw a similar scene as well: So it appears after raising their prices on Forge World overnight by 20%, or more in some cases, Games Workshop may have started to go after Warhammer recaster companies located in China directly this holiday season. Without remorse, there was a supplier that recasted the catalog of Games Workshop and Forgeworld reselling it at a ridiculous price. I would agree with most of the points expressed in the comments, that the moral analysis of recasting begins and ends at theft. What about sculptors that, due to their skill got pay really good money, what about shopfloor operatives, what about other staff, customer service bills etc. hell do they even pay their staff a decent wage. Reap what you sow. Or rather, do they produce miniatures with base polystyrene produced in highly toxic factories in China and Vietnam? Whats the actual law being broken when trading for a recast model? While actual models are 3D printed from a computer file done by a minimun wage payed designer and then casted the most hollow and thin possible to minimize costs and reduce durability. Somone else will reinvent a more reasonable wheel. Shortcuts: "C" opens comments. I now rely on trade forums to find slightly reasonably priced models. Just saying, this argument is fail. It is the same, in my opinion, as downloading movies and music that you havent paid for the right to see. 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Days is ridiculous you shouldnt buy alternate versions of models that you havent paid for the hobby is side... Finecast is so good from where I get them from quick check of their products leaves much be!
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