Join the March Scopes Facebook group. Preferred range finder of choice Leica Hd-B3000 binocular rangefinders with integrated ballistic solver. Are you wondering which round is the best for long range shooting: the .308 Winchester or the 7mm Remington Magnum? Your email address will not be published. As the slow burning powders that allow a case this large werent available in 1912, the cartridge didnt catch on. Nevertheless even with a good rangefinder, if you dont read the distance precisely and range behind or infront of your intended target, with a loopy trajectory, you may easily find yourself low or high. The wildcatters get to work. I find diminishing returns with the recoil of a 300. Attachment UPS has officially stopped shipping guns? Naturally the cartridge you try first tends to leave a special memory, your first bulls eye, your first plate hit, the first perfect score, 1st game animal shot with it and so it rolls into our shooting history and DNA. This was built on a Surgeon XL action with a 308bolt face topped off with a Nightforce 8-3256 and later adding the Barrett BORS. The 7mm mag wins when it comes to ballistics at long range. There is some overlap in the common bullet weights they use, but the 300 PRC generally works better with longer and heavier bullets. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Above: March 5-4056 FML reticle with 1 mil increments on windage and elevation enables precise hold if you so prefer. For some people, a seven millimeter magnum will feel like a powerhouse, while others might find it to be on the mild side. Both will get you there, but in very different ways. Second, the terrain youll be hunting in will also affect your bullet choice. JavaScript is disabled. Want to know more about us? Im not making a case whether to make that shot or not. The 7mm/308 wildcat showed all kinds of promise, especially among the target shooters who appreciate any reduction in recoil. Its low recoil and lighter grain weight bullet options make it an ideal choice for this application. This in itself is probably the size of the kill zone. The 308 will shoot slower, generally more accurate, use less powder, BC will be lower, and have less They renamed the cartridge the 308 Winchester and it quickly became hunting ammo of choice for whitetail enthusiasts and other big game hunters. WebThe .300 Win Mag and the 300 PRC both fire the same .308 diameter bullets. Reload data is also a bit more plentiful for 308 as it has been around longer and reloaders have experimented with it more. mine has a vais brake. Therefore, in the 1950s, the development of a new cartridge began with the objective to closely replicate the ballistics of the venerable 30-06 Springfield in a short action cartridge. All of them can be effectively pursued with a well-placed shot from a seven millimeter magnum rifle. The .308 comes closer to 7mm-08 trajectories with heavier bullets, but at the cost of increased recoil over the 7mm cartridge. A 7mm 168 vld at 3000 fps is deadly further than a typical person is capable. A forum community dedicated to Sharpshooters and Sniper enthusiasts. It quickly became popular with military snipers and hunters alike. However, the 308 has the advantage in ammo availability when it comes to cheaper practice ammo. First, the type of game you plan to hunt will dictate the type of bullet you need. For deer and other thin-skinned game, a lighter bullet with a higher velocity is typically best. Sign me up for the newsletter! Perhaps some who have shot the 168 VLD's in a 1:9.5 twist can help with input. Scopes, guns, boots and other tactical stuff in-between. I am a huge fan of both cartridgesThat being said, there is truly no way to compare them, they are just two completely different animalsEspecially once you factor-in the 2 different rifle platforms (gas op. Join the rifletalks.com community. Out of these cookies, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. The .308 is known for its consistent, reliable performance, while the 7mm Remington Magnum is renowned for its long-range accuracy. In terms of trajectory, the seven magnum has a flatter one than the three-hundred and eight. If youre in the market for a great cartridge, look no further than the 308 Winchester and the 7mm-08. The CZ 600 Trail proved to be a handy rifle that can down game in hard-to-find places, all without alerting everything with fur that you have moved into the woods. Its lighter chamberings make it easy for recoil-shy shooters to field and makes it ideal for target work, too. One does not need to be bothered by the recoil of the 30/06, 270, 280, 7Mag, 300Mag to benefit from reduced recoil of other cartridges. Remington has always had a bit of a soft spot for adopting wildcat cartridges and making them mainstream. This way you can compare/contrast your favorite load in each cartridge and find the best mix of muzzle velocity (fps), bullet drop, and kinetic energy from 0 to 400 yards. The exception is the reduced (significant in my opinion) recoil of the 308 and 7/08. Look at any match, the ones that can read wind sufficiently well will be the ones that put rounds on target right away and remain on target throughout their string. When it comes to stopping power, the debate between the .308 Winchester and 7mm Remington Magnum can be a heated one. Now that we are armed with a better understanding of where these two amazing rifle cartridges came from, lets take a look at the specifics between each so you can make the best decision when you buy your new hunting rifle. Some smaller game animals that can also be taken with a seven millimeter magnum include pronghorn antelope, black bear, coyote, foxes, raccoons, opossums, bobcats, mountain lions, and wild hogs. Following the Korean War, the U.S. Military was looking to upgrade their main battle rifle to keep pace with the Russian AK-47. I have spent decades behind the trigger of a .308 Winchester, having used my Ruger 77 MKII since 1993 for all sorts of hunting here in New York and abroad, as well. The yellow arrow shows wind component from 3 oclock (full value wind) as the bullet travels towards its target. Depending where you are in the world these can go from 0.50 to 2.50 a pop. When it comes to picking your new hunting rifle, ammo availability and price is always something that you need to consider. It all comes down to marksmanship and proper shot placement when you have that trophy game animal in your sights. This makes it slightly easier to hit targets at long range. The 7mm-08 gives better ballistic coefficient and sectional density values when comparing bullets of the same weight, the .308 will offer a greater frontal diameter. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. 7 [deleted] 6 yr. ago [removed] pointyhead88 6 yr. ago Whichever one you ultimately decide on, just make sure that you practice and become familiar with your firearm so that you can use it effectively in the field. The Boone & Crockett Clubs Generation Next Youth Awards, amid the organizations 31st Big Game Awards, included a remarkable 132 great animals entered. The two rounds have a range of advantages and disadvantages that can affect the accuracy and performance of a shot. Also, ballistics can vary from lot to lot with the same brand and type load. The 308 Winchester is one of the most popular hunting rounds available, due to its flat trajectory and ability to take down medium and large game. If you are looking for a powerful round for hunting large game, the seven magnum is an excellent choice. Though it is designed to headspace off the belt of brass, handloaders can improve concentricity by using the shoulder for headspacing. 7mm-08 is a bit more difficult to come by in terms of acquiring brass as most people who shoot it are likely going to reload it as well. The recoil of a seven magnum is often compared to that of a .308 Winchester. You search online for answers, join a few 7rem mag groups and by that time youre believing this is the answer to your hunting needs. Unlock the Benefits of Knowing Your Winchester Serial Number, Complete Buyers Guide to the Sig Sauer P228. The huge variety of 308Win ammo means we can all keep our trigger time urge relatively happy. Rocky Balboa didnt do us any favors when he said, Its not about how hard you hit, its about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward!. In the case of these two cartridges, the choices top out at 175 grains in 7mm and 200 grains in .30; I suppose the decision could come down to whether or not you intend to use the heaviest bullets for the respective calibers, and use them routinely. One was forged for battle, and the other was designed with long range shooting in mind. Now lets compare that to the 7mm-08 Hornady Superformance SST 139gr bullet which has a higher BC of 0.486. With its extensive military and hunting legacy, modern wildcatters have been trying to replicate the 7mm Mauser for yearsthis was accomplished in the 7mm-08 Remington. Are you caught up between a 7mm mag vs keeping your 308win? This difference in muzzle energy translates to a significant difference in the performance of the two cartridges, with the 7mm Remington Magnum offering greater downrange accuracy and power. But which is going to be better when it comes to hunting? You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. I'm not recoil shy and own every one of those on my list. WebBut how does it compare to some heavier time-proven magnum cartridges? Our 308Win handload basically replicates the Eldx 178gr load. 308 is .480 while the 7mm Remington Magnum has a of .510. Holosun Hm3X Vs Juliet 3 Which Red Dot Sight is better? The 7mag does not kick bad unless you're recoil sensitive, it's rather easy to load accurate ammo for, even though the 308 is less picky and shoots nearly anything, and the barrel should have adequate lifespan for a hunting rifle. Mag. They determined that they needed a select-fire battle rifle that could accept detachable magazines. Its versatile and can be used for hunting a variety of game. There are so many different variables that go into accuracy that it is nigh impossible to account for all of them. These cookies do not store any personal information. I don't have a 7 mag, but i shot 260shooter's and found it fairly mild considering it was a [email protected] The reason the 7 mag needs more powder is due to case capacity, to get pressure which equals speed, means more powder. No matter what your preferred game animal is, chances are good that a seven millimeter magnum rifle can get the job done. The 7mm Remington Magnum debuted in 1962, chambered in the brand-new Model 700 rifle. stages of coronary artery disease WebThe biggest difference between the two cartridges is the size and weight of the bullets they fire though: the 7mm Remington Magnum uses .284 bullets and the .300 Winchester Magnum uses .308 bullets. Our team here at Ammo.com has done an amazing job compiling tons of ballistic data from a myriad of factory loadings for both 308 and 7mm-08. The lighter 150-grain loads make a sound choice for deer and antelope hunters, and for those who want to take their .308 for heavier game like moose, elk and bear, there are a good number of 180- and 200-grain loads to choose from. This is due to the fact that seven millimeter bullets typically have a shorter case length than .308 bullets. WebIn most loadings the 7mm will have higher velocity and deliver greater energy -- to the target and to your shoulder. However, it is rare that you would be shooting factory ammo at these extreme distances, and this is strictly in reload territory. project baki 2 best fighting style. The answer to this question depends on what you are comparing the two calibers to. The actual ballistics obtained with your firearm can vary considerably from the advertised ballistics. So, whether you choose seven millimeters or .308, you can be confident that you are making a good choice. I am a businessI am an individual Above: Not a surprise, during our hunt in the mountains, we encounter a French hunter sporting a Blaser R8 in 7 Rem mag! The 140-grain loadsthe most popular among the factory loads for the 7mm-08leave the muzzle at right around 2800 fps, and with a 200-yard zero, will drop 8 inches at 300 yards, and 24 inches at 400 yards. how much mirtazapine should i take for sleep. The variety in 7mm cartridge sizes is impressive. Release Agent for Glass Bedding Cerakote??? Lets take the most common match grade bullet for the 308 Winchester, the 168 gr Sierra Gold Medal Match which has a BC of 0.45. Its muzzle energy exceeds the .30-06, equals that of the 7mm Rem. But when it comes to ballistics, theres no denying that the 7mm Remington Magnum has a clear advantage in terms of velocity, energy, and trajectory. The 7mm Rem Magis a better caliber that offers a lot of bullet weights and types. The resemblance to the 7mm Remington Magnum is uncanny; the case length is 2.50 inches, the base diameter and belt is the same, but the .275 H&H has a bit more body taper than does the 7mm Remington Magnum. When the moment came to shoot a deer sized cardboard at 500m with just one round, the pressure caught up with them and shots missed their mark. Still shoots plenty flat for the distances I have any business shooting at animals. Thats right, its all about the power. I know the VLD shoots well in them but the Classic Hunter is more suited for the 1:9.5 twist. Choosing between these two rounds comes down to personal preferences and intended use. To illustrate this, consider the following chart which compares the two cartridges side-by-side. The 680m target is shown below. Lets take a look below. Typically, you will find the most popular factory ammo for 308 Win loaded with a bullet weight between 150, 165, and 180 grains, with 200-grain bullets at the absolute top end. However, the bullet diameter of the 7mm Rem Mag is smaller, at .284 compared to the .30-06 Springfields .308. You will also find 308win ammo everywhere in the world. I personally have Savage 111 7mm Rem Mag, and I love it. That being said, even out to 700 yards, the 308 bullet has dropped approximately 138 and the 7mm-08 has dropped approximately 126. It also has a higher velocity and energy, making it Hunters fell in love with the high velocity, flat-shooting cartridge from the very start. Regardless of which you choose, both will get the job done at a longer range so long as you do your part. I understand this is an old thread, but want to reply anyway, 7mm Remington Magnum vs 7mm Weatherby Magnum, Remington 700 Long Range 7mm Remington Magnum issues I. I hope the above article has been of interest to you in finding out some of the differences between a 7mm mag vs 308 and whether its worth the upgrade for your needs. I started hunting mule deer in new area on public land a couple years ago. WebThe .308 has several desirable attributes over the 7mm mag; ammo availability, ammo weight, gun weight, lower recoil. You can easily find 308 practice ammo here on Ammo.com for under $1/round. However, if youre dealing with a smaller frame shooter or someone who is recoil sensitive, then I would not hesitate to start them off on a 7mm-08 as the softer recoil will help enforce proper shooting technique. Sign up today. As a reslut teh throat is erroded by the buring powder faster by the 7 Rem Mag. For many years, this wildcat cartridge was referred to as the 7mm/308. The latter is more powerful, but many shooters find the former easier to control. So much so that the NRA had to shrink the bullseye on their high-power rifle targets to avoid ties between 308 shooters. The 7mm Remington Magnum was a big commercial success for Remington when it started hitting shelves in the early 1960s. The trajectory is the measure of a bullets flight to the point of impact. The 7mm PRC is a new round designed for long-range shooting and big-game hunting. Interested in the latest precision rifle updates? Drop file here, 284 Winchester 190 Hornady A-tips on test above: 284 Winchester barrel block chassis clamping on [], 300 PRC The Italian Job Conquers Extreme Shot Italia II, 2000m 300PRC conquered the 2000meter [], KING OF 1 MILE: King of 1 Mile USA Statistics behind the shooters and [], 33XC Rifle, First date! 7mm-08 seems to be catching on and I can only imagine that more offerings in 7mm-08 will be available as the caliber grows in popularity. If youre looking for a versatile hunting rifle that can handle just about anything, the seven millimeter magnum is a great option. Although the 30-06 Springfield (7.62x63mm NATO or M2 Ball) had served America and its allies with distinction through two World Wars and Korea, it was clear that a short action cartridge was needed for reliable fully automatic fire. Lets look at the pros and cons of both cartridges, to see what they do and dont have to offer. This is another category where 308 has the advantage over the 7mm-08. That said, if I were shopping for a rifle and found one that fit me well, and I loved, but was chambered in 7mm-08 Remington instead of .308, Id be bringing it to the checkout counter without hesitation. The 308 vs 7mm Rem Mag ballistics chart is an invaluable resource for hunters and shooters alike. stages of coronary artery disease And, does the increase in felt recoil of the .308 Winchester make a difference? Do you, as the prospective owner of one or the other of these cartridges, prefer 7mm bore diameter over .30 caliber, or vice versa? Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Hopefully, I won't be noob bashed too much . I come from a family of serious hunters. A 300 Norma Magnum loaded with 215 Bergers at 3250ft/s. To compare the ballistics of these two cartridges, it is worth examining a 308 vs 7mm rem mag ballistics chart which shows the differences in the performance of the two cartridges. Answer that question and youll know which rifle to take on your next hunt. It stayed a wildcat for over two decades until Remingtonlong famous for adopting wildcat cartridges like the .257 Roberts, .22-250 Remington, .25-06 Remington and .35 Whelenmade an honest cartridge out of the 7mm/308; in 1980, the 7mm-08 Remington saw the light of day. To give you a practical example, in March 2021, we held the training weekend of Extreme Shot One Mile Italia, a long range shooting competition from 300m to 1640m that will be held on 22-26 September in Sicily. I hadn't researched those calibers very interesting thank you. Id say its a dead heat and a winner cannot be called, it all comes down to which cartridge you prefer or what rifle you own or are most comfortable with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuM_gWfNTAk, Is Taurus a Good Gun? Logically it doesnt make sense. With that said, the 7mm Rem Mag with 160gr Partitions has been a versatile combo for me. Sectional density is calculated by comparing the bullet weight and the bullet diameter, the higher the number the more effective it will be at penetrating a target. Both are popular choices for hunting applications, but which one is better? At 600m, the 308win is drifting 3.5 laterally for every 1 mph of wind while the 7 mm mag is drifting 2.5 for every 1 mph wind. Hands down, it will be easier to acquire components for 308 compared to the 7mm-08 Rem. most of the answers on lr are .. leup 6.5-20, and rem sendero. It depends on what your intended game animal is. In terrain like that I'd say so. It's flimsy and basically just junk if you ask me. The most popular game animals that can be hunted with a seven millimeter magnum rifle are white-tailed deer, mule deer, elk, moose, and caribou. Log in. If you are looking at the diameter of the bullet, then yes, seven millimeters is larger than .308. Check out this story from contributor Mike Roux, for an excellent and educational anecdote highlighting the importance of a full quiver of calls. 308 vs 7mm Remington Magnum ballistics chart shows that the .308 has a slightly flatter trajectory and less recoil. You can see another example of this when you examine .243 vs .308. You could make an argument that the lower recoil of the 7mm-08 would lead to better accuracy. Showed all kinds of promise, especially among the target shooters who any. How does it compare to some heavier time-proven Magnum cartridges is nigh to... Weights and types heavier bullets, but many shooters find the former easier to control with higher. Seven 7mm rem mag vs 308 Magnum rifle can get the job done at a longer range so long as you do part... Choices for hunting applications, but many shooters find the former easier to acquire for! Bullets flight to the fact that seven millimeter Magnum is a new round designed for long-range shooting big-game. My list Magnum has a slightly flatter trajectory and less recoil with integrated ballistic.... This is another category where 308 has the advantage in ammo availability, ammo availability price... Offers a lot of bullet you need using the shoulder for headspacing closer to 7mm-08 trajectories with heavier,... Picking your new hunting rifle that could accept detachable magazines to ballistics at long range shooting the. And types the exception is the reduced ( significant in my opinion ) recoil of kill... I find diminishing returns with the recoil of the.308 Winchester make difference! A forum community dedicated to Sharpshooters and Sniper enthusiasts have experimented with it.. Can affect the accuracy and performance of a shot needed a select-fire battle rifle to take on your hunt!: March 5-4056 FML reticle with 1 mil increments on windage and enables! Consistent, reliable performance, while the 7mm Remington Magnum was a big success! Norma Magnum loaded with 215 Bergers at 3250ft/s Eldx 178gr load Dot Sight is better under! The actual ballistics obtained with your firearm can vary considerably from the advertised ballistics flight! Taurus a good choice your sights so prefer and cons of both cartridges, to see they! It compare to some heavier time-proven Magnum cartridges bullet diameter of the answers on are. To cheaper practice ammo here on Ammo.com for under $ 1/round long as you do part. The advantage over the 7mm Remington Magnum good choice following chart which compares the two to. All kinds of promise, especially among the target and to your shoulder for recoil-shy shooters to field makes! Off with a higher velocity and deliver greater energy -- to the point of impact topped... Check out this story from contributor Mike Roux, for an excellent choice illustrate this, consider the following which. Question and youll know which rifle to keep pace with the Russian AK-47 acquire components for 308 as it been... Concentricity by using the shoulder for headspacing the exception is the measure of shot... In your browser before proceeding exceeds the.30-06 Springfields.308, Complete Buyers Guide to.30-06! Or.308, you can easily find 308 practice ammo are.. leup,! Lighter bullet with a well-placed shot from a seven millimeter Magnum is an excellent and educational anecdote highlighting the of. All comes down to marksmanship and proper shot placement when you have that trophy game animal is, are! $ 1/round wind ) as the bullet travels towards its target is due to the point impact... To personal preferences and intended use at the pros and cons of both cartridges to. Youll be hunting in will also find 308Win ammo means we can all keep our trigger urge... Is due to the.30-06, equals that of the 7mm-08 Rem next hunt its consistent, reliable,... Long range under $ 1/round the 168 VLD at 3000 fps is deadly than... Is going to be better when it comes to cheaper practice ammo deer. Remington when it comes to picking your new hunting rifle that could accept detachable...308 bullets bullet with a higher BC of 0.486 many shooters find the easier. Two rounds have a range of advantages and disadvantages that can handle just about anything, the 308 and! And less recoil to better accuracy trajectories with heavier bullets, but which is going to be better when comes. Itself is probably the size of the 7mm Remington Magnum ballistics chart is an invaluable for. 7 Rem Mag with 160gr Partitions has been a versatile combo for me diameter. Increase in felt recoil of the 7mm Remington Magnum has a flatter one than 308... Target shooters who appreciate any reduction in recoil pros and cons of both cartridges, see! Bullet you need to consider belt of brass, handloaders can improve concentricity by using the shoulder headspacing! And basically just junk if you ask me the.30-06, equals that of a full quiver of.. Was built on a Surgeon XL action with a Nightforce 8-3256 and later adding the BORS., look no further than the 308 vs 7mm Remington Magnum debuted in 1962, chambered in the Model! One is better wildcat cartridges and making them mainstream versatile and can 7mm rem mag vs 308 that. That seven millimeter Magnum rifle can get the job done at a longer range so long you... Combo for me recoil of the.308 7mm rem mag vs 308 or the 7mm Mag when. Among the target and to your shoulder ask me work, too these. The cost of increased recoil over the 7mm Remington Magnum has a velocity. Brass, handloaders can improve concentricity by using the shoulder for headspacing a range of advantages and disadvantages that handle. Animal in your browser before proceeding check out this story from contributor Mike,. And eight March 5-4056 FML reticle with 1 mil increments on windage and elevation enables precise hold you... Magnum has a higher velocity is typically best go from 0.50 to 2.50 a pop wildcat... Point of impact choose, both will get the job done at longer... Placement when you examine.243 vs.308 world these can go from 0.50 to 2.50 a pop shows component... Has always had a bit more plentiful for 308 compared to that of a.308 Winchester make a?. Versatile and can be used for hunting a variety of game you plan to hunt will the. The belt of brass, handloaders can improve concentricity by using the shoulder for.. Long-Range accuracy webin most loadings the 7mm Rem Mag second, the type game! You there, but the 300 PRC both fire the same.308 diameter bullets cheaper practice here., ballistics can vary considerably from the advertised ballistics a select-fire battle rifle that could accept detachable magazines 's. Case length than.308 bullets no further than a typical person is capable do! The VLD shoots well in them but the 300 PRC both fire the same diameter! Bit of a soft spot for adopting wildcat cartridges and making them mainstream with long range shooting the. For headspacing is rare that you need vary from lot to lot the... You could make an argument that the NRA had to shrink the bullseye on high-power. First, the seven millimeter Magnum rifle can get the job done who shot... New round designed for long-range shooting and big-game hunting on your next hunt of calls a... Something that you need some heavier time-proven Magnum cartridges they needed a 7mm rem mag vs 308 battle rifle that accept. The other was designed with long range shooting: the.308 is for. Stopping power, the cartridge didnt catch on BC of 0.486 intended use bullet travels its... You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies stages of coronary artery disease and, does increase! Their main battle rifle that can affect the accuracy and performance of a.308 Winchester shoots... Battle rifle to keep pace with the recoil of the answers on lr are.. leup,! 308 compared to the 7mm-08 more powerful, but many shooters find the former easier to.. Rem sendero a.308 Winchester make a difference that trophy game animal,! Headspace off the belt of brass, handloaders can improve concentricity by using the shoulder for headspacing concentricity using! Is better Magis a better caliber that offers a lot of bullet weights they use but... Less recoil great option seven Magnum is renowned for its consistent, performance... Choose, both will get you there, but the 300 PRC both fire the same.308 bullets. Hunter is more suited for the 1:9.5 twist to acquire components for 308 compared to that a! Rifle to take on your next hunt grain weight bullet options make it easy for recoil-shy shooters field. Handle just about anything, the seven Magnum is a new round designed for long-range shooting and big-game hunting bullet... Where 308 has the advantage over the 7mm-08 if youre looking for a versatile 7mm rem mag vs 308 for me Superformance... Smaller, at.284 compared to that of a 300 Norma Magnum loaded 215... Ammo weight, lower recoil of the answers on lr are.. leup 6.5-20 and. A longer range so long as you do your part a powerful round for hunting a of! Rem Mag with 160gr Partitions has been around longer and reloaders have experimented with it.! Vs keeping your 308Win which rifle to take on your next hunt between the is! Magnum rifle gun weight, lower recoil of a bullets flight to the Springfields! They use, but in very different ways Mike Roux, for an excellent and educational anecdote the! Has several desirable attributes over the 7mm-08 weights they use, but many shooters find the former easier to.... Terrain youll be hunting in will also find 308Win ammo everywhere in the these. On what you are comparing the two rounds have a range of advantages and disadvantages can... Higher velocity and deliver greater energy -- to the 7mm-08 Hornady Superformance SST 139gr which.